Talk:List of signal boxes
I got the diagrams from the SVRSevern Valley Railway S&TSignals & Telegraph web site and added them to each page while the wiki was still being tested in private.
It went public and I never got around to asking permission.
There's no credit or copyright notice on the images and no contact on the web site.
Who do I ask?
--Graham Phillips 110 (talk) 09:03, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
That's a bit awkward! I'll ask around and see if I can work out who runs it - I have a couple of names in mind that might be linked to it.
Regarding the supposed groundframes for working the far end loop points at Coalport, Cressage, and Berrington until 1930, the situation doesn't seem to match Marshall's information...
Firstly, the Signalling Record Society diagram for Coalport shows the existence of the motor points at a later date, and given the distance to the signal box, I can believe that they were too far for manual control.
However, I can't find any evidence for a similar situation at Cressage and Berrington. A 1913 sketch of Cressage shows the points at either end of the loop being directly controlled from the signal box in standard fashion. The similar 1913 sketch of Berrington doesn't show lever numbers, but equally there's no sign of a ground frame or any other unusual feature.
On the other hand, I can't get the distances in question to match the supposed maximum distances for operating points. Using OS maps, I get the distance from the signal box to the far end points as 350 yards, which was only permitted for manual operation after 1925. For Berrington it's about 250 yards, which you can do from 1908, so possibly in the 1913 diagram but not the original date of the box.
- Looking in slightly more detail, I now question how accurate the 1913 date given for those sketches is - for example, the "1913" sketch for Buildwas appears to be the post-1923 layout... --Danny252 (talk) 18:40, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
- Odd as you say. I believe Coalport was the longest of the three loops in question. MA Vanns also mentions the GFs at Berrington and Cressage, although he cites the Marshall book among his references. Marshall's reference for the installation of those two is to a document in the Shropshire County Records Office, which at least looks like original research. He also says that all 3 had GFs because ...the distance of the points from the signal box was regarded as too great for a run of rodding. Whether 'regarded as' means a practical decision or a legal requirement at the time, I can't say.
- One other clue, the Mitchell and Smith book includes an old OS map of Cressage with S.B. (signal box) at the north end of the loop as well as the one by the road crossing. There are other provable instances of S.B indicating ground frames, such as the map of Kinlet & Billingsley which definitely had two GFs but only one box.--Robin (talk) 21:06, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
- It would have been a legal requirement on point distances. The evolution of the legal requirements for facing points is 1874 120 yds, 1877 150 yds, 1885 180 yds, 1900 200 yds, 1908 250 yds, 1925 350 yds. Of course, motor points would have been exempt from these requirements, and the points at Berrington and Cressage would have eventually come within the legal maximum distance at later dates. You're quite right that "SB" can indicate things such as a ground frame or level crossing, I suspect that this was due to the OS mappers not being railway railway experts, and applying a much broader "SB" definition to keep things simple! I'd be interested to know which OS map Mitchell and Smith used, as none of the ones I've seen include "SB" at either end. --Danny252 (talk) 12:43, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- Their commentary refers to "the 1902 survey". However it's not on the georeferenced map 6in version which was revised 1901 and published 1903. On looking further, the other SB is actually by the crossing in the middle of the loop leading into the cattle pen rather than at the furthest end of the loop, so it may be a complete red herring.--Robin (talk) 18:56, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
- I've apparently caught the attention of a few interested people by asking about the dates/origins of the "1913" maps, who are now chasing up the information on the ground frames. Firstly, there is agreement that the GFs existed, the Cressage GF being at the Shrewsbury end and the Berrington GF at the Bridgnorth end. There exists an undated line plan that shows the ground frame at Coalport, but none at Cressage and Berrington; the plan is dated to pre-1923 by the existence of two signal boxes at Bridgnorth. Therefore, the date of c. 1930 for the removal of the latter two GFs seems wrong. --Danny252 (talk) 10:36, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Uni- or Bi-directional Crossing Loops
Which crossing loops were Unidirection (UpIn reference to the direction of travel means towards the major terminus (i.e. towards Kidderminster on the present day SVR) and DownIn reference to the direction of travel means away from the major terminus (i.e. towards Bridgnorth on the present day SVR) working), or not?